tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post4618775204184704972..comments2024-03-29T03:13:45.464-04:00Comments on Cockeyed Caravan: How to Re-Write, Addendum: Motivation Too Weak? Don’t Multiply It—Simplify It!Matt Birdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07319984238456281734noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-39780445286022679892013-05-03T18:19:12.136-04:002013-05-03T18:19:12.136-04:00"There’s nothing I hate more than those movie..."There’s nothing I hate more than those movies where a cop takes a special interest in a disappearance case because the victim reminds him of another kid he failed to save years ago. Ugh. No. Don’t do that. That’s not how the human mind works."<br /><br />I feel like this was the motivation for Bruce Willis in The Sixth Sense. Which I thought worked.<br /><br />Or do you think his main motivation was more like, "Go to work=give therapy to this weird kid"? And the other piece of it (the sadness over not being able to help the crazy guy at the beginning of the movie) was more like emotional context?Parkerhttp://www.parkerpeevyhouse.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-68462720805274124572013-05-01T15:30:40.021-04:002013-05-01T15:30:40.021-04:00Speaking of motivation, there is a kickstarter cam...Speaking of motivation, there is a kickstarter campaign for a Rom-Com that has an...unusual premise.<br /><br />"With This Ring is a romantic comedy about Jacqueline, a newly-licensed surgeon, who loses her engagement ring inside Brad, the notorious "all-destroyer" malpractice attorney. Panicked by the threat of a career-ending lawsuit, Jacqueline decides it's better to trick Brad back into surgery than tell him the truth. But since Brad has major trust issues when it comes to doctors -- and women -- getting him back on the table seems hopeless. Desperate, Jacqueline turns to seduction but soon finds herself caught between her fiance, her career, and her new love."<br /><br />It's a single, high-concept motivation IMO. Find out more at <a href="http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/842779848/with-this-ring-a-romantic-comedy-movie" rel="nofollow">With this Ring</a><br /><br />It also occurs to me that this notion about simple motivations overlaps with having a high-concept idea. Might be a good thing to explore in a future post.Daniel Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12214334186482741716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-27794917533546249942013-04-29T21:30:28.143-04:002013-04-29T21:30:28.143-04:00@JD Paradise
Great real life example JD. But I th...@JD Paradise<br /><br />Great real life example JD. But I think you're comparing a real life dramatic situation (dodgy real estate agent) with the metaphorical genre like reaction (grab a shotgun for revenge). I could see a genre film about scamming real estate agents that resulted in the hero taking up arms.<br /><br />But the way I see it, what's motivating you is this situation is that your idea of how the world should be is one where your family has a roof over their head. A safe place to live. That is motivation enough to deal with unsavory real estate agents. It is not an incorrect ideal so doesn't need to change. It still provides you motivation.<br /><br />But if there was a real threat to this situation, (your family was going to be left homeless) I believe it would motivate you to take all sorts of actions. The situation you describe wouldn't make a movie as no-one is really trying to stop this happening. They're just bad at their jobs.Paul Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688568338235157470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-52937392394127410142013-04-29T15:44:38.480-04:002013-04-29T15:44:38.480-04:00Well, I don't know, maybe it's only diffic...Well, I don't know, maybe it's only difficult for a film to convey complex motivations in two hours or less if it's trying to do anything else?<br /><br />There are plenty of mainstream dramas -- plus a number of thrillers and some other genre films that are more ambitious dramatically -- that do accomplish this feat.<br /><br />Maybe it's not a matter of retrofitting or simplifying motivation so much as creating the right protagonist to begin with? Like you say, "Anyone can be a hero, but not by doing what just anyone would do."j.s.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-16677467654062737912013-04-29T15:09:51.058-04:002013-04-29T15:09:51.058-04:00I would say that the problem isn't film, per s...I would say that the problem isn't film, per se, I would simply say that *two hours* isn't enough time to convey a complex web of motivations. If you look at extremely complex TV shows like "Breaking Bad" and "The Sopranos", the first two episodes are vastly simplified, and it's only later that the characters grew and grew. Matt Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319984238456281734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-32769166428279857642013-04-29T15:05:52.467-04:002013-04-29T15:05:52.467-04:00I wonder if you aren't kind of positing that f...I wonder if you aren't kind of positing that film is not very good at representing complex motivations? Which I'm not sure I agree with unless you'd make the formulation something more like "mainstream Hollywood storytelling." And even then, I don't know.<br /><br />As I've commented recently, clarity and credibility of the characters' motivations is central to my ability to accept any narrative. But I'm not sure that clarity demands simplicity.<br /><br />Since the Boston bombings, we've been inundated with possible motivations for both of the suspects. And the true-life trajectory of how each one came to be a mass murderer does seem like a fairly messy flowchart, with lots of fits and starts in many facets of each of their lives (family, school/career, religion, personal psychological problems) and without the simple clarity that you seem to be saying a good film requires. There's no single lynchpin motivation but a combination of interrelated factors without which we might never have heard of these guys.j.s.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-71039893160496859412013-04-29T14:57:48.246-04:002013-04-29T14:57:48.246-04:00Heh. Thanks for the well-wishes. If I Real Estate ...Heh. Thanks for the well-wishes. If I Real Estate Fiction was a genre category, this'd be a useful series of events as an inspiration...<br /><br />That said, it wasn't meant to summon (otherwise welcome!) support, but to use as an example. How does a situation like this -- and learning the human limits to exactly how much **** one WILL take -- play into fiction? Or do you think good fiction/movies by definition say "Yeah, I see that reality and raise it one Interesting Reaction", and we don't have to worry about being true to real human limits to provocation?<br />JD Paradisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07945134213244873038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-91625518079974872852013-04-29T13:15:12.228-04:002013-04-29T13:15:12.228-04:00Way to create suspense, JD-- Hope that all works o...Way to create suspense, JD-- Hope that all works out for you!Matt Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319984238456281734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-62152459102091406852013-04-29T12:31:44.671-04:002013-04-29T12:31:44.671-04:00@Paul Clark -
This feels true to me, but not quit...@Paul Clark -<br /><br />This feels true to me, but not quite the whole story. Most of us experience incidents every day that remind us that the world is not the world we imagine it to be. It doesn't necessarily motivate us to change.<br /><br />In a personal example, I'm going through a real estate transaction right now that are ultimate-high-stakes (security of my family, kids' education, considerable money, etc.). The agent on the sellers' end seems to be very dirty; the agent on the buyers' end seems to be incompetent. Each challenges my ideal of what a professional should be, and each presents risks to me and mine.<br /><br />At the end of the day, though, if this falls through and costs me thousands of dollars I don't have, even if it ends up in the worst possible case, where I end up selling my house later this week and having nowhere to move my family, when I go to whatever transaction is next, it's not going to make me avoid agents. Even though it feels personal, it's not going to make me get a shotgun and go agent-hunting. <br /><br />True, it may change a few of the peripherals (I'll investigate the other party's agent with the real estate commission; I'll file grievances against these folks so others can be forewarned)...but at the same time, five years from now if we move again, maybe it *won't*; maybe I'll go back to exactly where I am now.<br /><br />So even with <i>significant</i> stakes, this character in particular isn't being motivated by the conflict between ideal world and reality to take the kind of (real-life-analog to) life-risking big actions that story actions can demand. In a movie, I might believe (in the moment) that a movie-me would take big actions... but at some point that does wear down; when libel and slander suits start piling up as a result of real-world me going after these folks in public venues, the real-world version of me would probably back down and issue retractions. The clash between ideal and real simply wouldn't be enough to sustain me through that kind of price. Similarly, I'd have a hard time believing that a movie-me who started predating on realtors would take a gunshot to the chest and, instead of going home to bleed in private, continue the hunt.<br /><br />So, in short (too late!), while this clash may be part of it, it doesn't feel like the whole story.<br /><br /><br /> JD Paradisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07945134213244873038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-62612310513928367112013-04-28T21:28:42.958-04:002013-04-28T21:28:42.958-04:00I think it all boils down to the main characters i...I think it all boils down to the main characters ideal world. They all begin with an idea of how the world should be. The inciting incident usually shows them that it is not. They go about changing the world, usually to discover their ideal world is wrong and that they must change.<br /><br />In a revenge movie, the ideal world would be one where there is justice. They are dealing out that justice themselves. In a love story, their ideal world is where they're with the other person.<br /><br />It's a bit abstract, but allows you to simplify the motivation down to one thing.Paul Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15688568338235157470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-44232448209555147562013-04-28T18:19:12.085-04:002013-04-28T18:19:12.085-04:00Thanks, fixed!Thanks, fixed!Matt Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319984238456281734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13294573.post-26590109657159105272013-04-28T16:01:11.987-04:002013-04-28T16:01:11.987-04:00“You see, John Carter’s fighting the protect to pr...“You see, John Carter’s <b>fighting the protect to princess of Mars</b> because he wants redemption for failing to protect his own family on Earth ten years ago!”<br /><br />I think he's fighting <b>to</b> protect <b>the</b> princess of Mars.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com